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	<title>Comments on: A 2.1 sigma excess of MSSM Higgs!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/</link>
	<description>private thoughts of a physicist and chessplayer</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:50:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: yet anotherblog &#124; Παρά 2%.</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-91926</link>
		<dc:creator>yet anotherblog &#124; Παρά 2%.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 02:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-91926</guid>
		<description>[...] ενός ολόκληρου κλάδου εδώ και καναδυό βδομάδες με τις φήμες οτι όχι μόνο είδαν το σωματίδιο Χιγκς, αλλά οτι είδαν [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ενός ολόκληρου κλάδου εδώ και καναδυό βδομάδες με τις φήμες οτι όχι μόνο είδαν το σωματίδιο Χιγκς, αλλά οτι είδαν [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Awaiting news on the formerly 2.1-sigma excess of MSSM Higgs &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-74537</link>
		<dc:creator>Awaiting news on the formerly 2.1-sigma excess of MSSM Higgs &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 08:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-74537</guid>
		<description>[...] October 2, 2007 Posted by dorigo in news, physics, science.  trackback  Last January readers of this blog and Cosmic Variance got acquainted with a funny effect seen by CDF in the data where they were [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] October 2, 2007 Posted by dorigo in news, physics, science.  trackback  Last January readers of this blog and Cosmic Variance got acquainted with a funny effect seen by CDF in the data where they were [...]</p>
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		<title>By: An update of the 2.1-sigma MSSM Higgs signal is coming &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-74534</link>
		<dc:creator>An update of the 2.1-sigma MSSM Higgs signal is coming &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 08:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-74534</guid>
		<description>[...] October 2, 2007 Posted by dorigo in news, physics, science.  trackback  Last January readers of this blog and Cosmic Variance got acquainted with a funny effect seen by CDF in the data where they were [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] October 2, 2007 Posted by dorigo in news, physics, science.  trackback  Last January readers of this blog and Cosmic Variance got acquainted with a funny effect seen by CDF in the data where they were [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A second intriguing MSSM paper &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-48782</link>
		<dc:creator>A second intriguing MSSM paper &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-48782</guid>
		<description>[...] the Minimal SuperSymmetric extension of the Standard Model (MSSM) in a way that best marries the  tentative Higgs signal  which appeared last January in a  beautiful analysis by CDF  of MSSM higgs decays to tau lepton [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Minimal SuperSymmetric extension of the Standard Model (MSSM) in a way that best marries the  tentative Higgs signal  which appeared last January in a  beautiful analysis by CDF  of MSSM higgs decays to tau lepton [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Higgs rumor spreads again &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-46349</link>
		<dc:creator>The Higgs rumor spreads again &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 08:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-46349</guid>
		<description>[...] published the story of the possible observation of Higgs decays to tau-lepton pairs and the alleged ensuing rumors that the particle could be seen - if it existed - in other datasets. From then on, things snowballed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] published the story of the possible observation of Higgs decays to tau-lepton pairs and the alleged ensuing rumors that the particle could be seen &#8211; if it existed &#8211; in other datasets. From then on, things snowballed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Physics World on the Higgs affair &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-38583</link>
		<dc:creator>Physics World on the Higgs affair &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 09:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-38583</guid>
		<description>[...] details of the story which had escaped my insider visual at the time. For instance the fact that my actions (see also here for a summary) were defended by the CDF spokesperson Rob Roser, who does not think I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] details of the story which had escaped my insider visual at the time. For instance the fact that my actions (see also here for a summary) were defended by the CDF spokesperson Rob Roser, who does not think I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: More press coverage &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-30670</link>
		<dc:creator>More press coverage &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-30670</guid>
		<description>[...]  The ripples caused by the New Scientist article and by the piece on the Economist  about the 2.1-sigma excess of tau-pair candidates observed by CDF are causing secondary excitations, just as electrons in a drift chamber run at very high [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  The ripples caused by the New Scientist article and by the piece on the Economist  about the 2.1-sigma excess of tau-pair candidates observed by CDF are causing secondary excitations, just as electrons in a drift chamber run at very high [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rumors about the Higgs &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-30309</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumors about the Higgs &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 23:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-30309</guid>
		<description>[...] signal is discussed elsewhere, and among other places, in my blog, where I show that if the H-&gt;tau tau signal seen by Conway is real, one could take seriously an [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] signal is discussed elsewhere, and among other places, in my blog, where I show that if the H-&gt;tau tau signal seen by Conway is real, one could take seriously an [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The MSSM Higgs signal buried in my plot &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-30239</link>
		<dc:creator>The MSSM Higgs signal buried in my plot &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-30239</guid>
		<description>[...] science, news, personal, internet. trackback  Maybe a few readers of this blog will remember my comment of the recent 2.1-sigma excess of H-&gt;tau tau candidates found by a CDF analysis looking for MSSM Higgs bosons  (also see  the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] science, news, personal, internet. trackback  Maybe a few readers of this blog will remember my comment of the recent 2.1-sigma excess of H-&gt;tau tau candidates found by a CDF analysis looking for MSSM Higgs bosons  (also see  the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: gr.yet.anotherblog.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Παρά 2%.</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-28438</link>
		<dc:creator>gr.yet.anotherblog.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Παρά 2%.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-28438</guid>
		<description>[...] ενός ολόκληρου κλάδου εδώ και καναδυό βδομάδες με τις φήμες οτι όχι μόνο είδαν το σωματίδιο Χιγκς, αλλά οτι είδαν [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ενός ολόκληρου κλάδου εδώ και καναδυό βδομάδες με τις φήμες οτι όχι μόνο είδαν το σωματίδιο Χιγκς, αλλά οτι είδαν [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The inside story of the potential Higgs signal &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-28065</link>
		<dc:creator>The inside story of the potential Higgs signal &#171; A Quantum Diaries Survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-28065</guid>
		<description>[...] all that to say that the potential signal of a MSSM Higgs boson I discussed a week ago in this post  has been explained in detail at the cosmic variance blog  by one of the makers of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all that to say that the potential signal of a MSSM Higgs boson I discussed a week ago in this post  has been explained in detail at the cosmic variance blog  by one of the makers of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dorigo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-27151</link>
		<dc:creator>dorigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-27151</guid>
		<description>Hi Tony,

I think you know me well enough to not be surprised if I am skeptical about three-bumped stuff. However, I keep it an open-ended issue until the LHC nails it. And I would be disrespectfully happy if you turned out to be even half right.

As for the statistical information in plots, however, I usually get even more skeptical, since I know how to run pseudoexperiments, and when you do it long enough you get to understand a simple fact: just about any background-subtracted plot will show structures such as those at which you hint above.

You of course realize that yourself when you say &quot;such things are very highly uncertain&quot;... Yes. The CDF Z-&gt;bb plot will have four times more statistics than the D0 one, and some structure above 100 GeV will still be present (I cannot tell you exactly what or where for fear of being kicked out by CDF), but they will fail to demonstrate anything... We really need LHC data here.

Cheers,
T.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tony,</p>
<p>I think you know me well enough to not be surprised if I am skeptical about three-bumped stuff. However, I keep it an open-ended issue until the LHC nails it. And I would be disrespectfully happy if you turned out to be even half right.</p>
<p>As for the statistical information in plots, however, I usually get even more skeptical, since I know how to run pseudoexperiments, and when you do it long enough you get to understand a simple fact: just about any background-subtracted plot will show structures such as those at which you hint above.</p>
<p>You of course realize that yourself when you say &#8220;such things are very highly uncertain&#8221;&#8230; Yes. The CDF Z-&gt;bb plot will have four times more statistics than the D0 one, and some structure above 100 GeV will still be present (I cannot tell you exactly what or where for fear of being kicked out by CDF), but they will fail to demonstrate anything&#8230; We really need LHC data here.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
T.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Smith</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-27097</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-27097</guid>
		<description>Tommaso, 
thanks for explaining about the Z-peak being at 80 GeV indicating that the analysis that produced the chart was uncorrected for b-jet missing energy, so that the Z-peak showing up at 80 GeV when the Z-mass is known to be 91 GeV means that the Z-peak should be corrected by shifting it up 11 GeV to 91 GeV. 
As you say &quot;... then a bump at 140 means a particle at 160 GeV ...&quot;. 
Since my model value of 146 GeV Higgs is a tree-level calculation, and 
since the state of uncertainty is such that it is OK to say that 140 + 11 = 160 GeV (and the 140 only comes from eyeballing a preliminary chart), 
I am with respect to my model happy to see a bump around 160 GeV, and am looking forward to the CDF  Z to bb plot to be released next month. 

Further, the shift up by 11 GeV also would shift a much smaller (just one data point a bit above the base line, but it and its neighbors do look like a peak) bump in the D0 chart around 170 GeV up to around 181 GeV, which is in the range where my model expects to see a second Higgs peak (the model having 3 peaks for both the Higgs and the Tquark). 

Such things are very highly uncertain, but they give me (probably unwarranted, but it feels good anyway) optimism while waiting for LHC results. 

Tony Smith
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tommaso,<br />
thanks for explaining about the Z-peak being at 80 GeV indicating that the analysis that produced the chart was uncorrected for b-jet missing energy, so that the Z-peak showing up at 80 GeV when the Z-mass is known to be 91 GeV means that the Z-peak should be corrected by shifting it up 11 GeV to 91 GeV.<br />
As you say &#8220;&#8230; then a bump at 140 means a particle at 160 GeV &#8230;&#8221;.<br />
Since my model value of 146 GeV Higgs is a tree-level calculation, and<br />
since the state of uncertainty is such that it is OK to say that 140 + 11 = 160 GeV (and the 140 only comes from eyeballing a preliminary chart),<br />
I am with respect to my model happy to see a bump around 160 GeV, and am looking forward to the CDF  Z to bb plot to be released next month. </p>
<p>Further, the shift up by 11 GeV also would shift a much smaller (just one data point a bit above the base line, but it and its neighbors do look like a peak) bump in the D0 chart around 170 GeV up to around 181 GeV, which is in the range where my model expects to see a second Higgs peak (the model having 3 peaks for both the Higgs and the Tquark). </p>
<p>Such things are very highly uncertain, but they give me (probably unwarranted, but it feels good anyway) optimism while waiting for LHC results. </p>
<p>Tony Smith<br />
<a href="http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/" rel="nofollow">http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</a></p>
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		<title>By: dorigo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-27004</link>
		<dc:creator>dorigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-27004</guid>
		<description>Hi Tony,

if you look at D0&#039;s plot, the Z peaks at 80, not 91 GeV.
That means that b-jets were not corrected for the many effects that make them different from generic jets (on which jet energy corrections are tuned, since those are the jets you get when you trigger on them at a hadron collider).
b-jets are indeed different: they have a harder fragmentation function, have a larger mass, but most of all they have a 23% branching ratio into leptons - so neutrinos are produced, and they do not leave a signal. Also, 13% of b-jets have muons inside, from b-&gt;mu or b-&gt;c-&gt;mu or b-&gt;tau-&gt;mu decay chains. And muons, too, give a minimum-ionizing response in the calorimeter.

All that to say that if the Z peaks at 80 instead than 91, then a bump at 140 means a particle at 160 GeV.

Cheers,
T.

PS I still haven&#039;t answered your other recent comment... I am working on it !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tony,</p>
<p>if you look at D0&#8217;s plot, the Z peaks at 80, not 91 GeV.<br />
That means that b-jets were not corrected for the many effects that make them different from generic jets (on which jet energy corrections are tuned, since those are the jets you get when you trigger on them at a hadron collider).<br />
b-jets are indeed different: they have a harder fragmentation function, have a larger mass, but most of all they have a 23% branching ratio into leptons &#8211; so neutrinos are produced, and they do not leave a signal. Also, 13% of b-jets have muons inside, from b-&gt;mu or b-&gt;c-&gt;mu or b-&gt;tau-&gt;mu decay chains. And muons, too, give a minimum-ionizing response in the calorimeter.</p>
<p>All that to say that if the Z peaks at 80 instead than 91, then a bump at 140 means a particle at 160 GeV.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
T.</p>
<p>PS I still haven&#8217;t answered your other recent comment&#8230; I am working on it !</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Smith</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-26926</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-26926</guid>
		<description>Lubos Motl in his blog on 23 January 2007 says about what looks like the same D0 plot shown in this blog entry: 
&quot;... I [Lubos] am unconvinced by the statement that there is an extra bump at 160 GeV in the chart above. The chart would be more likely to indicate a bump at 140 GeV. ...&quot;. 

Although the statistics are very inconclusive to say the least, 
it seems to me that Lubos&#039;s remark is correct. 
I am not disinterested, because my model (non-supersymmetric) has a Higgs at about 146 GeV. 

Also, it seems to me that the D0 chart, with respect to CDF claim of a bump at 160 GeV, does show, as Tommaso says, that : 
&quot;... D0 sees a deficit of events where CDF sees an excess ...&quot;. 

Tony Smith
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lubos Motl in his blog on 23 January 2007 says about what looks like the same D0 plot shown in this blog entry:<br />
&#8220;&#8230; I [Lubos] am unconvinced by the statement that there is an extra bump at 160 GeV in the chart above. The chart would be more likely to indicate a bump at 140 GeV. &#8230;&#8221;. </p>
<p>Although the statistics are very inconclusive to say the least,<br />
it seems to me that Lubos&#8217;s remark is correct.<br />
I am not disinterested, because my model (non-supersymmetric) has a Higgs at about 146 GeV. </p>
<p>Also, it seems to me that the D0 chart, with respect to CDF claim of a bump at 160 GeV, does show, as Tommaso says, that :<br />
&#8220;&#8230; D0 sees a deficit of events where CDF sees an excess &#8230;&#8221;. </p>
<p>Tony Smith<br />
<a href="http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/" rel="nofollow">http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Not Even Wrong &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Various and Sundry</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-26597</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Even Wrong &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Various and Sundry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/a-21-sigma-eccess-of-mssm-higgs/#comment-26597</guid>
		<description>[...] at Tommaso Dorigo&#8217;s blog, he&#8217;s spreading wild rumors about a Higgs signal seen by CDF. He does acknowledge that this &#8220;signal&#8221; is not the sort of thing one should [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at Tommaso Dorigo&#8217;s blog, he&#8217;s spreading wild rumors about a Higgs signal seen by CDF. He does acknowledge that this &#8220;signal&#8221; is not the sort of thing one should [...]</p>
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