Comments on: At a trigger meeting 15 years ago… http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/ private thoughts of a physicist and chessplayer Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:50:26 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Andrea Giammanco http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-38056 Andrea Giammanco Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:40:47 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-38056 Well, the same kind of problem had the CERN director general in november 2000, when he had to decide if the possible Higgs bump in LEP data justified an extension for the existing accelerator, i.e. a delay for LHC. Now that the significance of that bump has decreased from 3 to 2 sigmas, almost everybody agrees that he did the wisest choice. At the time, almost everybody (apart from Tevatron people, isn't it strange?;)) thought he was making a catastrophic choice. If the Higgs will be found at the same mass of that bump, probably everybody will remember him as "the guy who slowed human knowledge by N years" (with N>7). Well, the same kind of problem had the CERN director general in november 2000, when he had to decide if the possible Higgs bump in LEP data justified an extension for the existing accelerator, i.e. a delay for LHC.
Now that the significance of that bump has decreased from 3 to 2 sigmas, almost everybody agrees that he did the wisest choice. At the time, almost everybody (apart from Tevatron people, isn’t it strange?;)) thought he was making a catastrophic choice.
If the Higgs will be found at the same mass of that bump, probably everybody will remember him as “the guy who slowed human knowledge by N years” (with N>7).

]]> By: David Heffernan http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37761 David Heffernan Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:09:13 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37761 Hey Tomasso, thanks for the full story. These trigger meetings sound like a lot of fun, but I'm glad I'm not one of the ones who has to fight to get my pet analysis prioritized. I've heard a few more good stories from disgruntled people studying Bs oscillations, who were passed over in favour of the people who wanted to prioritize the Higgs triggers. Glad it's not as much of an issue on a lepton machine, although we still get to see people argue over the benefits and trade offs of taking data Y(4S) versus Y(5S) and so on. Hey Tomasso, thanks for the full story. These trigger meetings sound like a lot of fun, but I’m glad I’m not one of the ones who has to fight to get my pet analysis prioritized. I’ve heard a few more good stories from disgruntled people studying Bs oscillations, who were passed over in favour of the people who wanted to prioritize the Higgs triggers.

Glad it’s not as much of an issue on a lepton machine, although we still get to see people argue over the benefits and trade offs of taking data Y(4S) versus Y(5S) and so on.

]]> By: D http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37656 D Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:00:01 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37656 Can you link to the former post? After reading all that I really want to know what was said Can you link to the former post? After reading all that I really want to know what was said

]]> By: Sean Carroll http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37652 Sean Carroll Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:46:50 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37652 Great post, Tomaso. Thanks for the inside story! It's the difficult physics decisions that make it interesting, although the personal flair is always fun. Great post, Tomaso. Thanks for the inside story! It’s the difficult physics decisions that make it interesting, although the personal flair is always fun.

]]> By: dorigo http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37640 dorigo Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:55:36 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37640 Agreed. But what is fair is to evaluate the wisdom of those who argued in one direction or the opposite. Maybe the ones arguing for a higher energy run of Adone were seers, maybe they were just guessing right by total chance. But for sure they deserve some post-mortem credit... As for the naysayers in CDF who cut physics datasets to avoid a minor loss of high-Pt data, well... They were right too. Cheers, T. Agreed. But what is fair is to evaluate the wisdom of those who argued in one direction or the opposite. Maybe the ones arguing for a higher energy run of Adone were seers, maybe they were just guessing right by total chance. But for sure they deserve some post-mortem credit… As for the naysayers in CDF who cut physics datasets to avoid a minor loss of high-Pt data, well… They were right too.

Cheers,
T.

]]> By: Andrea Giammanco http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37590 Andrea Giammanco Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:12:25 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/843/#comment-37590 right, but it's unfair to decide the goodness of a past decision according to our present knowledge. An example from history: the people searching the tau lepton at the ADONE collider in Frascati fought a lot to increase the center of mass energy as much as possible. The committee in charge of taking the decision, as far as I was told, decided that the resulting penalization on all the other standard analyses (which were less fancy than the search of a new particle, but very important for understanding the details of e+e- collisions) was excessive. When, immediately after, other colliders discovered the J/phi and the tau lepton (at energies "right behind the corner" for ADONE), everybody in retrospect judged this a very unwise decision. It's always a gamble...:) right, but it’s unfair to decide the goodness of a past decision according to our present knowledge.
An example from history: the people searching the tau lepton at the ADONE collider in Frascati fought a lot to increase the center of mass energy as much as possible.
The committee in charge of taking the decision, as far as I was told, decided that the resulting penalization on all the other standard analyses (which were less fancy than the search of a new particle, but very important for understanding the details of e+e- collisions) was excessive.
When, immediately after, other colliders discovered the J/phi and the tau lepton (at energies “right behind the corner” for ADONE), everybody in retrospect judged this a very unwise decision.
It’s always a gamble…:)

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