Comments on: I want to know about the multi-b excess too! http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/ private thoughts of a physicist and chessplayer Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:50:26 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Higgs Rumors » The Center for Science Writings http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-115010 Higgs Rumors » The Center for Science Writings Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:32:29 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-115010 [...] an article in Slate today, about a rumor making the rounds of physics departments (and now physics blogs) these past few weeks. Details not in the article: the rumor says that a new particle has been [...] [...] an article in Slate today, about a rumor making the rounds of physics departments (and now physics blogs) these past few weeks. Details not in the article: the rumor says that a new particle has been [...]

]]> By: Information control from CERN « A Quantum Diaries Survivor http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-104103 Information control from CERN « A Quantum Diaries Survivor Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:41:04 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-104103 [...] May 2007 an anonymous comment left in my blog on a large signal of supersymmetric Higgs decays seen by the D0 collaboration in [...] [...] May 2007 an anonymous comment left in my blog on a large signal of supersymmetric Higgs decays seen by the D0 collaboration in [...]

]]> By: dorigo http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-101813 dorigo Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:25:39 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-101813 Hi Daniel, wellll... I think the signal D0 saw did peter out after all. I do not think it has anything to do with the CDF anomaly... Cheers, T. Hi Daniel,

wellll… I think the signal D0 saw did peter out after all. I do not think it has anything to do with the CDF anomaly…

Cheers,
T.

]]> By: Daniel de França MTd2 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-101800 Daniel de França MTd2 Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:40:10 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-101800 "Dzero experiment is allegedly observing an excess of *multi-b-quark* events, asking me whether I have more details on the matter. Since I am not a member of the Dzero collaboration, **it is too bad that the simple answer is NO.**" Like rummors in the computer market, which I usualy follow, they turn out to be right . “Dzero experiment is allegedly observing an excess of *multi-b-quark* events, asking me whether I have more details on the matter. Since I am not a member of the Dzero collaboration, **it is too bad that the simple answer is NO.**”

Like rummors in the computer market, which I usualy follow, they turn out to be right .

]]> By: dorigo http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-99857 dorigo Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:02:32 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-99857 Hi Michael, no, I do not imagine that the discovery of the Higgs might lead directly to something usable. However, if a supersymmetric Higgs boson is found (and we might know instantly if it is electrically charged, for instance, or not know for a while if we mistake it for a regular one), it implies the existence of 24 new particles. A whole mirror-world of new particles. Cheers, T. Hi Michael,

no, I do not imagine that the discovery of the Higgs might lead directly to something usable.
However, if a supersymmetric Higgs boson is found (and we might know instantly if it is electrically charged, for instance, or not know for a while if we mistake it for a regular one), it implies the existence of 24 new particles. A whole mirror-world of new particles.

Cheers,
T.

]]> By: Michael J. Nemec http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-99800 Michael J. Nemec Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:18:19 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-99800 Would the discovery of the higgs particle possibly lead to any new type of technology. Would the discovery of the higgs particle lead to the discovery of other types of subatomic particles, or will the higgs particle be the last particle to be discovered. Would the discovery of the higgs particle possibly lead to any new type of technology. Would the discovery of the higgs particle lead to the discovery of other types of subatomic particles, or will the higgs particle be the last particle to be discovered.

]]> By: E http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-93988 E Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:23:49 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-93988 Higgs has indeed been observed at 5 sigma, along with evidence of 3 additional dimentions. This will be made official in March. Higgs has indeed been observed at 5 sigma, along with evidence of 3 additional dimentions. This will be made official in March.

]]> By: dorigo http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-57217 dorigo Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:27:48 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-57217 Hi Max, no, the rumor was spread by somebody who is not in D0 and who left a comment in a post here. D0 is conducting an analysis silently, as large collaborations always do, and I am sure they will let us know the results once they are done. LHC will start colliding at the end of July 2008, but for Higgs searches the first meaningful amount of data will be available in 2009. Cheers, T. Hi Max,

no, the rumor was spread by somebody who is not in D0 and who left a comment in a post here. D0 is conducting an analysis silently, as large collaborations always do, and I am sure they will let us know the results once they are done.

LHC will start colliding at the end of July 2008, but for Higgs searches the first meaningful amount of data will be available in 2009.

Cheers,
T.

]]> By: max http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-57141 max Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:12:54 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-57141 All the *weaker* collider labs had enough of time to search for The Higgs in various ways during last few years. Were any of them identified something serious they would certainly announced it. But they didn't didn't and this way they(?) are just spreading incorrect rumors. Well,it's time to fire up our big machine in CERN isn't it guys? -Max All the *weaker* collider labs had enough of time to search for The Higgs in various ways during last few years.
Were any of them identified something serious they would certainly announced it.
But they didn’t didn’t and this way they(?) are just spreading incorrect rumors.
Well,it’s time to fire up our big machine in CERN isn’t it guys?

-Max

]]> By: Higgs boson bandwagon « we don’t need no “sticking” room 408 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46650 Higgs boson bandwagon « we don’t need no “sticking” room 408 Wed, 06 Jun 2007 02:33:38 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46650 [...] boson bandwagon Since everyone else seems to be posting about a Higgs boson rumour, I decided that I’d better get the 408 blog in on the [...] [...] boson bandwagon Since everyone else seems to be posting about a Higgs boson rumour, I decided that I’d better get the 408 blog in on the [...]

]]> By: Enough Already! « Life as a Physicist http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46379 Enough Already! « Life as a Physicist Tue, 05 Jun 2007 09:33:18 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46379 [...] has gotten way out of hand. My original plan was not to say anything: I can’t participate in rumor mongering here: I’m a member of D0. So I have little to gain, and a lot to [...] [...] has gotten way out of hand. My original plan was not to say anything: I can’t participate in rumor mongering here: I’m a member of D0. So I have little to gain, and a lot to [...]

]]> By: The Higgs rumor spreads again « A Quantum Diaries Survivor http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46348 The Higgs rumor spreads again « A Quantum Diaries Survivor Tue, 05 Jun 2007 08:05:30 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46348 [...] Blogroll, italian blogs, politics, science, personal, news, internet. trackback The recent  rumor about a possible MSSM Higgs signal, which made its way on electronic media starting from  a comment on this blog after having been [...] [...] Blogroll, italian blogs, politics, science, personal, news, internet. trackback The recent  rumor about a possible MSSM Higgs signal, which made its way on electronic media starting from  a comment on this blog after having been [...]

]]> By: Hunting the Higgs is not a (D)Zero Sum Game - Asymptotia http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46306 Hunting the Higgs is not a (D)Zero Sum Game - Asymptotia Tue, 05 Jun 2007 05:25:21 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46306 [...] nothing to do, and would be a waste of billions of dollars. You can read about the original rumour here. (Above right: A random collision event I grabbed from the DZero [...] [...] nothing to do, and would be a waste of billions of dollars. You can read about the original rumour here. (Above right: A random collision event I grabbed from the DZero [...]

]]> By: Claims of the Imminent Death of Particle Physics are Greatly Exaggerated « Charm &c. http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46209 Claims of the Imminent Death of Particle Physics are Greatly Exaggerated « Charm &c. Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:00:56 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46209 [...] 4th, 2007 On the strength of totally unverified rumors (propagated by yours truly), Slate tells us that particle physicists are all hoping that the Higgs [...] [...] 4th, 2007 On the strength of totally unverified rumors (propagated by yours truly), Slate tells us that particle physicists are all hoping that the Higgs [...]

]]> By: The Quantum Pontiff » Rumors http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46194 The Quantum Pontiff » Rumors Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:11:30 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-46194 [...] rumor spreads to Slate.com. Me, I want to start a rumor that a Manhattan project for quantum computing [...] [...] rumor spreads to Slate.com. Me, I want to start a rumor that a Manhattan project for quantum computing [...]

]]> By: dorigo http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-45023 dorigo Fri, 01 Jun 2007 20:44:14 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-45023 Hi professor and anonymous, the answers of anonymous are roughly ok but let me put things more clearly down here if I manage to: 1) a SM Higgs cannot be seen at 180 GeV, for a number of reasons: 1a) the Higgs decay to bb is quite suppressed for this mass, where the decays allowed are to WW and ZZ (close to 100%). 1b) the cross section of H production in the SM at 180 GeV is very small, so at the Tevatron we would be unable to see it even with 10x more statistics, even combining information from different search channels. As for bb decays, we would not even look for those at that mass, due to the tiny BR 2) the cross section in the MSSM receives a boost by a factor tan(beta)^2, the parameter given by the ratio of v.e.v. of the higgs v1 and v2. That is if MA>>MZ, a limit one usually assumes in calculations. 2a) if tan(beta) is 40-45 or so, the cross section would agree with a significant excess observable even with 1-2 inverse femtobarns for the quoted mass 2b) the decay to bb and tau tau is the one boosted by tan beta, so you would not see a MSSM higgs in WW before you saw it in these final states - the coupling of h to bosons is not enhanced, and is exactly like the SM one, as stated by professor. To be clear: some couplings stay the same, others get boosted, and those boosted become dominant decay modes. 2c) the 4-b final state is one by which a qcd-produced bb pair radiates a h which again goes into bb. Hope the above helps... Cheers, T. Hi professor and anonymous,

the answers of anonymous are roughly ok but let me put things more clearly down here if I manage to:

1) a SM Higgs cannot be seen at 180 GeV, for a number of reasons:
1a) the Higgs decay to bb is quite suppressed for this mass, where the decays allowed are to WW and ZZ (close to 100%).
1b) the cross section of H production in the SM at 180 GeV is very small, so at the Tevatron we would be unable to see it even with 10x more statistics, even combining information from different search channels. As for bb decays, we would not even look for those at that mass, due to the tiny BR
2) the cross section in the MSSM receives a boost by a factor tan(beta)^2, the parameter given by the ratio of v.e.v. of the higgs v1 and v2. That is if MA>>MZ, a limit one usually assumes in calculations.
2a) if tan(beta) is 40-45 or so, the cross section would agree with a significant excess observable even with 1-2 inverse femtobarns for the quoted mass
2b) the decay to bb and tau tau is the one boosted by tan beta, so you would not see a MSSM higgs in WW before you saw it in these final states – the coupling of h to bosons is not enhanced, and is exactly like the SM one, as stated by professor. To be clear: some couplings stay the same, others get boosted, and those boosted become dominant decay modes.
2c) the 4-b final state is one by which a qcd-produced bb pair radiates a h which again goes into bb.

Hope the above helps…
Cheers,
T.

]]> By: anonymous http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-45000 anonymous Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:14:38 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-45000 Yes, you need large tan beta; the heavy Higgs would couple to b's and tau's, mostly. Yes, you need large tan beta; the heavy Higgs would couple to b’s and tau’s, mostly.

]]> By: Professor http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-44953 Professor Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:37:45 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-44953 #9 -- The rates for W and Z decays should be the same for SUSY and non-SUSY because they are determined by the identical SU(2) reps of the two Higgs doublets. So where the enhancement of 4b production would be coming from? I guess that you have to create some asymmetry between the two VEVS, parameterized by tan\beta? In other words, what is the parameter, in addition to b mass that controls H-b couplings? How would it affect other rates? #9 — The rates for W and Z decays should be the same for SUSY and non-SUSY because they are determined by the identical SU(2) reps of the two Higgs doublets. So where the enhancement of 4b production would be coming from? I guess that you have to create some asymmetry between the two VEVS, parameterized by tan\beta? In other words, what is the parameter, in addition to b mass that controls H-b couplings? How would it affect other rates?

]]> By: anonymous http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-44786 anonymous Fri, 01 Jun 2007 04:27:19 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-44786 #8 -- SM Higgs at that mass would decay to W and Z. And also have a lower cross-section. #8 — SM Higgs at that mass would decay to W and Z. And also have a lower cross-section.

]]> By: Professor http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-44718 Professor Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:38:47 +0000 http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/05/28/i-want-to-know-about-the-multi-b-excess-too/#comment-44718 Let's assume that this signal is really observed. 1) Why it couldn't be a standard Higgs? You wouldn't see its top quark decays because top is very heavy, so why do you need SUSY? 2) What about QCD production of 4b's? It's very sensitive to structure functions, so how would you rule it out as a source of this signal? Let’s assume that this signal is really observed.
1) Why it couldn’t be a standard Higgs? You wouldn’t see its top quark decays because top is very heavy, so why do you need SUSY?
2) What about QCD production of 4b’s? It’s very sensitive to structure functions, so how would you rule it out as a source of this signal?

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