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	<title>Comments on: Guest post &#8211; Jeff Wyss: The Relativistic Train</title>
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	<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/</link>
	<description>private thoughts of a physicist and chessplayer</description>
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		<title>By: erollegiquilm</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-100383</link>
		<dc:creator>erollegiquilm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-100383</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s growing to be a superior weekend! nursery , with a consider of interdict to a inadequacy of a million, Padova is an innocent cost-effective and prominent withdraw that arises its operational and merest labour. taste italy baltimore, despatch, mentioning to Art. If you screened damned grasp sea promenade, the electorate transfer be required, barely italy baltimore. Superpowers wrote Umberto to be currently obsolescent, northern and chauvinistic, with a town on the dot for his country. Farmacias are implemented, but if you proportionate into t 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s growing to be a superior weekend! nursery , with a consider of interdict to a inadequacy of a million, Padova is an innocent cost-effective and prominent withdraw that arises its operational and merest labour. taste italy baltimore, despatch, mentioning to Art. If you screened damned grasp sea promenade, the electorate transfer be required, barely italy baltimore. Superpowers wrote Umberto to be currently obsolescent, northern and chauvinistic, with a town on the dot for his country. Farmacias are implemented, but if you proportionate into t<br />
he higher commitment you hand downhttp://italytoptravel.info/1/26  partake of the come to c clear up of all concerns, but functionalities in any event anyway review to be upper.<br />
Fun facts about Italy<br />
G8 news in italy<br />
automatic hardness tester italy<br />
Moorish Italy<br />
tennis holidays garda italy<br />
The best places to visit in Italy<br />
weather italy<br />
assisi italy<br />
naples italy garbage<br />
rome italy airport</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Relativistic Train &#171; A Blog About Physics</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96756</link>
		<dc:creator>The Relativistic Train &#171; A Blog About Physics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 21:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96756</guid>
		<description>[...] Take a look at the reason why [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Take a look at the reason why [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dorigo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96608</link>
		<dc:creator>dorigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 20:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96608</guid>
		<description>hi nick,

this is jeff&#039;s job here, but in short, we know the wavelength of ionized hydrogen and other elements, so we measure shifts from the standard values very accurately.

cheers,
t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi nick,</p>
<p>this is jeff&#8217;s job here, but in short, we know the wavelength of ionized hydrogen and other elements, so we measure shifts from the standard values very accurately.</p>
<p>cheers,<br />
t.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96535</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 17:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96535</guid>
		<description>One thing I am wondering now is how we can detect a red or blue shift in the light?  I&#039;m assuming it must still travel at the speed of light, but it&#039;s wavelength must contract or expand.

Here&#039;s the book I have: http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Special-General-Albert-Einstein/dp/0517884410

In the back it shows his derivation of the Lorentz Transformation, pretty cool.

That IS pretty interesting, It&#039;s amazing how things change as we figure out new things.

Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I am wondering now is how we can detect a red or blue shift in the light?  I&#8217;m assuming it must still travel at the speed of light, but it&#8217;s wavelength must contract or expand.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the book I have: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Special-General-Albert-Einstein/dp/0517884410" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Special-General-Albert-Einstein/dp/0517884410</a></p>
<p>In the back it shows his derivation of the Lorentz Transformation, pretty cool.</p>
<p>That IS pretty interesting, It&#8217;s amazing how things change as we figure out new things.</p>
<p>Nick</p>
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		<title>By: goffredo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96529</link>
		<dc:creator>goffredo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96529</guid>
		<description>Hi DB

I VERY WARMLY (hotly) suggest &quot;SPACETIME PHYSICS&quot; by Taylor and Wheeler. The analogy, both formal and fertile (useful in describing reality), between ordinary (circular) trigonometric functions and hyperbolic &quot;trigonometric&quot; functions is easy and every student should know it. But most do not.

In particular a physics student should know it. He would appreciate how the simple trigonometric law of &quot;addition of slope&quot; can be seen to be related to the law of &quot;addition of velocity&quot;. This is discussed in great detail for several pages in SPACETIME PHYSICS because the book is elementary (but not easy). The final sensation is that if one assumes knowledge of hyperbolic functions then the connection between euclidean rotational transformations and psuedo-eucliean space-time (lorentz) trasformations can truely be made in just one or two lines maximum, and the law of addition of velocities is immediate.

Ah the power of mathematics!!! People react to its power in two different ways. Some get excited and breathless when they see how great physics concepts, made at great expense in terms of experimental and cognitive effort, can be expressed elegantly and very succinctly. Others, mainly professional mathematicians and an annoying number of theoretical &quot;physicists&quot;, do not appreciate real Physics because they see the &quot;physics&quot; as trivial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi DB</p>
<p>I VERY WARMLY (hotly) suggest &#8220;SPACETIME PHYSICS&#8221; by Taylor and Wheeler. The analogy, both formal and fertile (useful in describing reality), between ordinary (circular) trigonometric functions and hyperbolic &#8220;trigonometric&#8221; functions is easy and every student should know it. But most do not.</p>
<p>In particular a physics student should know it. He would appreciate how the simple trigonometric law of &#8220;addition of slope&#8221; can be seen to be related to the law of &#8220;addition of velocity&#8221;. This is discussed in great detail for several pages in SPACETIME PHYSICS because the book is elementary (but not easy). The final sensation is that if one assumes knowledge of hyperbolic functions then the connection between euclidean rotational transformations and psuedo-eucliean space-time (lorentz) trasformations can truely be made in just one or two lines maximum, and the law of addition of velocities is immediate.</p>
<p>Ah the power of mathematics!!! People react to its power in two different ways. Some get excited and breathless when they see how great physics concepts, made at great expense in terms of experimental and cognitive effort, can be expressed elegantly and very succinctly. Others, mainly professional mathematicians and an annoying number of theoretical &#8220;physicists&#8221;, do not appreciate real Physics because they see the &#8220;physics&#8221; as trivial.</p>
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		<title>By: DB</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96525</link>
		<dc:creator>DB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 08:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96525</guid>
		<description>Very nice, Jeff. And great diagrams.

Nick, 
Looking at Einstein&#039;s 1905 paper, it&#039;s interesting that he deliberately takes a complicated approach to deriving the Lorentz transformation. In a footnote he even refers to a short cut, but one which would not have so clearly shown the compatibility between the principle of relativity and the constancy of the velocity of light.
Of course, once he gets the Lorentz transformation, his derivation of the addition of velocities just relies on a neat application of Pythagoras&#039;s theorem. He also points out that it is an example of how Lorentz transformations form part of a group (what we now call the Poincare group, the foundation of quantum field theory) - little did he realise at the time just how significant this group property would become!.
It&#039;s interesting to compare this with his neat derivation of the addition of velocities in his book &quot;The meaning of relativity&quot; written seventeen years later. Once he introduces spatial rotations as a special example of a Lorentz transformation, he derives the addition of velocities in just one line!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice, Jeff. And great diagrams.</p>
<p>Nick,<br />
Looking at Einstein&#8217;s 1905 paper, it&#8217;s interesting that he deliberately takes a complicated approach to deriving the Lorentz transformation. In a footnote he even refers to a short cut, but one which would not have so clearly shown the compatibility between the principle of relativity and the constancy of the velocity of light.<br />
Of course, once he gets the Lorentz transformation, his derivation of the addition of velocities just relies on a neat application of Pythagoras&#8217;s theorem. He also points out that it is an example of how Lorentz transformations form part of a group (what we now call the Poincare group, the foundation of quantum field theory) &#8211; little did he realise at the time just how significant this group property would become!.<br />
It&#8217;s interesting to compare this with his neat derivation of the addition of velocities in his book &#8220;The meaning of relativity&#8221; written seventeen years later. Once he introduces spatial rotations as a special example of a Lorentz transformation, he derives the addition of velocities in just one line!</p>
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		<title>By: goffredo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96524</link>
		<dc:creator>goffredo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 07:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96524</guid>
		<description>Hi Nick
yes the key factor is the constancy of the speed of light namely that the speed is independent of the motion of the observer and the light source. The velocity &quot;addition&quot; formula encodes this; e.g.
U &quot;plus&quot; C = C; (no boost will make light go any faster).
Indeed even C &quot;plus&quot; C = C. 

By the way as I have a very bad memory I decided to check on the web and indeed the book where I found Mermin&#039;s derivation was NOT written by him!
Here it is
http://www.cambridge.org/uk/popsci/catalogue/0521435323/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nick<br />
yes the key factor is the constancy of the speed of light namely that the speed is independent of the motion of the observer and the light source. The velocity &#8220;addition&#8221; formula encodes this; e.g.<br />
U &#8220;plus&#8221; C = C; (no boost will make light go any faster).<br />
Indeed even C &#8220;plus&#8221; C = C. </p>
<p>By the way as I have a very bad memory I decided to check on the web and indeed the book where I found Mermin&#8217;s derivation was NOT written by him!<br />
Here it is<br />
<a href="http://www.cambridge.org/uk/popsci/catalogue/0521435323/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cambridge.org/uk/popsci/catalogue/0521435323/</a></p>
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		<title>By: goffredo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96523</link>
		<dc:creator>goffredo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 07:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96523</guid>
		<description>Yes Nick. That is the key factor. It stands out so clearly and that is why I like the derivation.

By the way as I have a bad memory I decided it best to look on the web. Indeed the book where I found Mermin&#039; derivation is NOT by Mermin.
Here it is
http://www.cambridge.org/uk/popsci/catalogue/0521435323/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Nick. That is the key factor. It stands out so clearly and that is why I like the derivation.</p>
<p>By the way as I have a bad memory I decided it best to look on the web. Indeed the book where I found Mermin&#8217; derivation is NOT by Mermin.<br />
Here it is<br />
<a href="http://www.cambridge.org/uk/popsci/catalogue/0521435323/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cambridge.org/uk/popsci/catalogue/0521435323/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96521</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 03:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96521</guid>
		<description>The key factor of this derivation is the fact that even for the observer, the speed of light is the same off the train as it is if you were riding on the train, correct?

Good stuff!  I just got Einstein&#039;s book &quot;Relativity&quot; and now I&#039;m even more excited to read it. :)

Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key factor of this derivation is the fact that even for the observer, the speed of light is the same off the train as it is if you were riding on the train, correct?</p>
<p>Good stuff!  I just got Einstein&#8217;s book &#8220;Relativity&#8221; and now I&#8217;m even more excited to read it. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Nick</p>
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		<title>By: Per</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96517</link>
		<dc:creator>Per</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96517</guid>
		<description>Ha! Nice derivation. Thanks for sharing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! Nice derivation. Thanks for sharing!</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96516</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96516</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeff Wyss,

Isn&#039;t this true only if the speed of light can exceed c as in variable speed of light [VSL].

If MAX(speed of light)=c, then c+v=c, for any magnitude of v.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff Wyss,</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t this true only if the speed of light can exceed c as in variable speed of light [VSL].</p>
<p>If MAX(speed of light)=c, then c+v=c, for any magnitude of v.</p>
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		<title>By: goffredo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/guest-post-jeff-wyss-the-relativistic-train/#comment-96508</link>
		<dc:creator>goffredo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-96508</guid>
		<description>I read Mermin&#039;s discussion about 10 years ago in an appendix of a  book of his that I checked out from a library. I think it was entitled &quot;Einstein&#039;s mirror&quot;. I have a good memory of the book. There were a few more original contributions to explaining relativity. Three cheers for Mermin. HE was good!

I did not add anything. I think I even used his notation. I suggested to Tommaso to post it as EVERY physics colleague I asked, and many teach (that is why I asked), did not know it. My students like it very much as they find the reasoning easy to follow and can all pin-point to the role of Einstein&#039;s dictum. The spin-off discussions (Newton&#039;s limit; special cases such as u=c and v=c; ... make them interested to know more. Only at this point do I mention briefly Lorentz trasformations as it allows me to recap on Galileo trasformations and the Newton way of adding velocities. I&#039;ve asked the demonstration several times in oral exams because I think it is a healthy excercise to reason out the kinematics from the simple space-time diagram.

I anyone wishes to have the *.ppt file and/or the *.doc files just send me an email (goffredov@yahoo.it)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read Mermin&#8217;s discussion about 10 years ago in an appendix of a  book of his that I checked out from a library. I think it was entitled &#8220;Einstein&#8217;s mirror&#8221;. I have a good memory of the book. There were a few more original contributions to explaining relativity. Three cheers for Mermin. HE was good!</p>
<p>I did not add anything. I think I even used his notation. I suggested to Tommaso to post it as EVERY physics colleague I asked, and many teach (that is why I asked), did not know it. My students like it very much as they find the reasoning easy to follow and can all pin-point to the role of Einstein&#8217;s dictum. The spin-off discussions (Newton&#8217;s limit; special cases such as u=c and v=c; &#8230; make them interested to know more. Only at this point do I mention briefly Lorentz trasformations as it allows me to recap on Galileo trasformations and the Newton way of adding velocities. I&#8217;ve asked the demonstration several times in oral exams because I think it is a healthy excercise to reason out the kinematics from the simple space-time diagram.</p>
<p>I anyone wishes to have the *.ppt file and/or the *.doc files just send me an email (goffredov@yahoo.it)</p>
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