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	<title>Comments on: The new bridge by Calatrava in Venice</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/</link>
	<description>private thoughts of a physicist and chessplayer</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:50:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100951</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100951</guid>
		<description>GW &amp; T,

I stand corrected in my over-the-top assessment of the bridge itself. My thoughts towards the architects were a reaction to several Venetian newspaper accounts with comments from the readers. For instance: &#039;La Nuova di Venezia e Mestre&#039; published this article:

http://nuovavenezia.repubblica.it/dettaglio/Calatrava-i-disabili-fanno-causa-al-Comune/1523979?edizione=EdRegionale#commenta

Even though my understanding of the Italian language is very limited now, I had the impression that a number the readers were questioning the functionality of the bridge. Over the past 30 years in Santa Monica, we have had a number urban renewal projects constructed under the guise of benefitting the community. We have only just started to adequately question our local leaders and planners with more scrutiny directed at the cost and overall future impact of these commissions. I suppose I am a bit hypersensitive from being steamrolled by prominent developers in our small but thriving city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GW &amp; T,</p>
<p>I stand corrected in my over-the-top assessment of the bridge itself. My thoughts towards the architects were a reaction to several Venetian newspaper accounts with comments from the readers. For instance: &#8216;La Nuova di Venezia e Mestre&#8217; published this article:</p>
<p><a href="http://nuovavenezia.repubblica.it/dettaglio/Calatrava-i-disabili-fanno-causa-al-Comune/1523979?edizione=EdRegionale#commenta" rel="nofollow">http://nuovavenezia.repubblica.it/dettaglio/Calatrava-i-disabili-fanno-causa-al-Comune/1523979?edizione=EdRegionale#commenta</a></p>
<p>Even though my understanding of the Italian language is very limited now, I had the impression that a number the readers were questioning the functionality of the bridge. Over the past 30 years in Santa Monica, we have had a number urban renewal projects constructed under the guise of benefitting the community. We have only just started to adequately question our local leaders and planners with more scrutiny directed at the cost and overall future impact of these commissions. I suppose I am a bit hypersensitive from being steamrolled by prominent developers in our small but thriving city.</p>
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		<title>By: dorigo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100912</link>
		<dc:creator>dorigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100912</guid>
		<description>Well Fred, I am unable to match your rethoric style, so I&#039;ll stay down to earth - the facts are: the bridge&#039;s blueprint was donated by Santiago Calatrava to the city of Venice. There did not seem to be another option... Or so I think I had the story. 

Ross, what is that you do not understand ? As for the bridge&#039;s color, I think I like glass in the bridge, so I disagree... Besides, please remember that Venice is not a natural place: it is all built, invented by man. I see no problem in integrating new technology and materials in the city&#039;s architectures...

Cheers,
T.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Fred, I am unable to match your rethoric style, so I&#8217;ll stay down to earth &#8211; the facts are: the bridge&#8217;s blueprint was donated by Santiago Calatrava to the city of Venice. There did not seem to be another option&#8230; Or so I think I had the story. </p>
<p>Ross, what is that you do not understand ? As for the bridge&#8217;s color, I think I like glass in the bridge, so I disagree&#8230; Besides, please remember that Venice is not a natural place: it is all built, invented by man. I see no problem in integrating new technology and materials in the city&#8217;s architectures&#8230;</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
T.</p>
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		<title>By: Guess Who</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100893</link>
		<dc:creator>Guess Who</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100893</guid>
		<description>Fred, to paraphrase Freud, sometimes a bridge is just a bridge...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred, to paraphrase Freud, sometimes a bridge is just a bridge&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100888</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 01:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100888</guid>
		<description>Mi scusi ma non capisco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mi scusi ma non capisco.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100885</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100885</guid>
		<description>Hola Tommaso de Venecia,

Your post conjures images of Ayn Rand&#039;s book &quot;The Fountainhead&quot; and her unyielding devotees. The works of the notable architectural firms headed by Santiago Calatrava and Frank Gehry reveal a distinct flaw in the human psyche: we cannot consume enough from those that seek to dominate us through art, politics, religion and industry. We can intellectualize our evolving needs by relative thought and action but inevitably we return to the nest and yearn for predestiny like little baby birds with mouths wide open. Who can deny the elemental beauty of glass, concrete and meta coming from those talented in the world of technology? I personally would have liked to have seen this particular bridge designed and built by an independent team that carried the heart and soul of Venice on its sleeve. The contracted public works of large consortiums are usually impressive but lack the spirit, functionality and intimacy of personal freedom. The paradox here is twofold: 1. The philosophical direction of individuality that Rand promoted is an elitist agenda disguised as a strike for humanity. 2. The initial discrete and distinct qualities of Calatrava and Gehry eventually succumb to the lure and power of the throne. Regardless, the citizens of Venice should be able to bend this eye-appealing structure to their will.

Buenos dias</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hola Tommaso de Venecia,</p>
<p>Your post conjures images of Ayn Rand&#8217;s book &#8220;The Fountainhead&#8221; and her unyielding devotees. The works of the notable architectural firms headed by Santiago Calatrava and Frank Gehry reveal a distinct flaw in the human psyche: we cannot consume enough from those that seek to dominate us through art, politics, religion and industry. We can intellectualize our evolving needs by relative thought and action but inevitably we return to the nest and yearn for predestiny like little baby birds with mouths wide open. Who can deny the elemental beauty of glass, concrete and meta coming from those talented in the world of technology? I personally would have liked to have seen this particular bridge designed and built by an independent team that carried the heart and soul of Venice on its sleeve. The contracted public works of large consortiums are usually impressive but lack the spirit, functionality and intimacy of personal freedom. The paradox here is twofold: 1. The philosophical direction of individuality that Rand promoted is an elitist agenda disguised as a strike for humanity. 2. The initial discrete and distinct qualities of Calatrava and Gehry eventually succumb to the lure and power of the throne. Regardless, the citizens of Venice should be able to bend this eye-appealing structure to their will.</p>
<p>Buenos dias</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100880</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100880</guid>
		<description>I just noticed that the underside of the bridge is OK for colour, and so is the whole bridge at night. It&#039;s the bright white and translucent blue hues during the day that cause the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just noticed that the underside of the bridge is OK for colour, and so is the whole bridge at night. It&#8217;s the bright white and translucent blue hues during the day that cause the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100879</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100879</guid>
		<description>I like the design of the bridge but the colour is all wrong. It should be some kind of ancient terra cotta or mouldy old green, like the rest of Venice. The actual colour looks like a protest, as if the bridge is a juvenile&#039;s t-shirt saying &quot;U_ yours!&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the design of the bridge but the colour is all wrong. It should be some kind of ancient terra cotta or mouldy old green, like the rest of Venice. The actual colour looks like a protest, as if the bridge is a juvenile&#8217;s t-shirt saying &#8220;U_ yours!&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: chimpanzee</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100877</link>
		<dc:creator>chimpanzee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 05:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100877</guid>
		<description>I was at the Venetian in Las Vegas in 2005, &amp; I thought it was pretty interesting too.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://thevenetian.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://thevenetian.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt;

The gondola ride looked pretty nice!

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vrmag.org/issue15/A_VIRTUAL_TOUR_OF_THE_VENETIAN_HOTEL_IN_LAS_VEGAS.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;VR Tour of Venetian&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rcfisher.com/venetiantour.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Venetian Tour&lt;/a&gt;

Venetian is right across the street from Treasure Island, which has a fantastic nightly show.  Pirates battling it out with fireworks &amp; special effects.  TI has my favorite Las Vegas buffet (high-end, $16).

A Las Vegas historian (my HS classmate btw, Dept Head UNLV History Dept) said:

&quot;Las Vegas can give you a xxx, without being the real thing&quot;

It&#039;s a form of virtual reality, kinda like what a Scientific Theory is..just a virtual model of reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at the Venetian in Las Vegas in 2005, &amp; I thought it was pretty interesting too.</p>
<p><a href="http://thevenetian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://thevenetian.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>The gondola ride looked pretty nice!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vrmag.org/issue15/A_VIRTUAL_TOUR_OF_THE_VENETIAN_HOTEL_IN_LAS_VEGAS.html" rel="nofollow">VR Tour of Venetian</a><br />
<a href="http://www.rcfisher.com/venetiantour.html" rel="nofollow">Venetian Tour</a></p>
<p>Venetian is right across the street from Treasure Island, which has a fantastic nightly show.  Pirates battling it out with fireworks &amp; special effects.  TI has my favorite Las Vegas buffet (high-end, $16).</p>
<p>A Las Vegas historian (my HS classmate btw, Dept Head UNLV History Dept) said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Las Vegas can give you a xxx, without being the real thing&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a form of virtual reality, kinda like what a Scientific Theory is..just a virtual model of reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Markk</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100873</link>
		<dc:creator>Markk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100873</guid>
		<description>Speaking as a Calatrava fan (Our Art Museum in Milwaukee is great) he loves that glass white sail like structure. I believe it is based on forms of sails but the curves on his designs always seem like splines or something - pure but when you look, not really parabolas or ellipses - something slightly off. Or maybe that is just my eye.  You can definitely see his style. 

There is even a Calatrava inspired (I think he helped slightly with advice) bridge right next to the Harley-Davidson Museum in Milwaukee. I always thought that was cute. As I rode by on my bicycle... Oh yeah, generally his projects shake themselves out over a year or two but them are pretty functional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as a Calatrava fan (Our Art Museum in Milwaukee is great) he loves that glass white sail like structure. I believe it is based on forms of sails but the curves on his designs always seem like splines or something &#8211; pure but when you look, not really parabolas or ellipses &#8211; something slightly off. Or maybe that is just my eye.  You can definitely see his style. </p>
<p>There is even a Calatrava inspired (I think he helped slightly with advice) bridge right next to the Harley-Davidson Museum in Milwaukee. I always thought that was cute. As I rode by on my bicycle&#8230; Oh yeah, generally his projects shake themselves out over a year or two but them are pretty functional.</p>
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		<title>By: Anisotropie</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100854</link>
		<dc:creator>Anisotropie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100854</guid>
		<description>The water of Lido di Venezia is not worse than the rest of adriatic coast; indeed, following ARPAV&#039;s analysis, is one the healthiest in Italy.

It is not easy to live in Venice, and one can live elsewhere, but aesthetically speaking, Venice is the best ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The water of Lido di Venezia is not worse than the rest of adriatic coast; indeed, following ARPAV&#8217;s analysis, is one the healthiest in Italy.</p>
<p>It is not easy to live in Venice, and one can live elsewhere, but aesthetically speaking, Venice is the best <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: dorigo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100850</link>
		<dc:creator>dorigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100850</guid>
		<description>I never saw acqua alta creating a waterfall. Also, you do not seem to know the countryside around Venice. There are wonderful places already just 10 km away. The same lagoon is a unique natural environment. While, if you want to travel 80 km, you get to nice mountains.

The only thing that sucks is the quality of the water of the lido di Venezia and surrounding beaches, which is not good.

Cheers,
T.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never saw acqua alta creating a waterfall. Also, you do not seem to know the countryside around Venice. There are wonderful places already just 10 km away. The same lagoon is a unique natural environment. While, if you want to travel 80 km, you get to nice mountains.</p>
<p>The only thing that sucks is the quality of the water of the lido di Venezia and surrounding beaches, which is not good.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
T.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabibbo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100849</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabibbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100849</guid>
		<description>&quot;I assure you there are no indoor waterfalls anywhere in Venetian palaces though&quot;

Two words: acqua alta.

And of course Venice *is* the most beautiful town in the world! What other place can compare? The only bad thing about Venice is its hideous hinterland; you have to travel hundreds of km to find a nice countryside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I assure you there are no indoor waterfalls anywhere in Venetian palaces though&#8221;</p>
<p>Two words: acqua alta.</p>
<p>And of course Venice *is* the most beautiful town in the world! What other place can compare? The only bad thing about Venice is its hideous hinterland; you have to travel hundreds of km to find a nice countryside.</p>
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		<title>By: dorigo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100846</link>
		<dc:creator>dorigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100846</guid>
		<description>Hi Kea,

my comment on the &quot;most beautiful&quot; was of course tongue-in-cheek... 
I do love Venice, but I&#039;d not mind living elsewhere.

Hi Louise,

yes, I know there&#039;s a mock-up in Vegas. I assure you there are no indoor waterfalls anywhere in Venetian palaces though ;-)

Cheers,
T.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kea,</p>
<p>my comment on the &#8220;most beautiful&#8221; was of course tongue-in-cheek&#8230;<br />
I do love Venice, but I&#8217;d not mind living elsewhere.</p>
<p>Hi Louise,</p>
<p>yes, I know there&#8217;s a mock-up in Vegas. I assure you there are no indoor waterfalls anywhere in Venetian palaces though <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
T.</p>
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		<title>By: Louise</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100841</link>
		<dc:creator>Louise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 04:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100841</guid>
		<description>If you are ever in Las Vegas, the Venetian Resort has an indoor (and spotlessly clean) Grand Canal and St. Mark&#039;s Square.  They recently opened a Palazzo section with indoor waterfall.  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are ever in Las Vegas, the Venetian Resort has an indoor (and spotlessly clean) Grand Canal and St. Mark&#8217;s Square.  They recently opened a Palazzo section with indoor waterfall.  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.</p>
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		<title>By: Kea</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100838</link>
		<dc:creator>Kea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100838</guid>
		<description>Nice bridge - but most beautiful town in the world? Hmm. I detect some bias here. Venice is a beautiful town (I was there briefly in the &#039;80s) but so are many others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice bridge &#8211; but most beautiful town in the world? Hmm. I detect some bias here. Venice is a beautiful town (I was there briefly in the &#8217;80s) but so are many others.</p>
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		<title>By: dorigo</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100836</link>
		<dc:creator>dorigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100836</guid>
		<description>Hi Thomas,

tsk tsk - you should have known better. Those are little short of thieves. Caffe&#039; Florian, Caffe&#039; Quadri, and the other bars with tables on the S.Marco square are to be avoided at all costs. However, I understand how for a tourist it is frankly hard to avoid all the traps. It is hard for us living in there too! 

Cheers,
T.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Thomas,</p>
<p>tsk tsk &#8211; you should have known better. Those are little short of thieves. Caffe&#8217; Florian, Caffe&#8217; Quadri, and the other bars with tables on the S.Marco square are to be avoided at all costs. However, I understand how for a tourist it is frankly hard to avoid all the traps. It is hard for us living in there too! </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
T.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Larsson</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100834</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Larsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100834</guid>
		<description>Venice was the first stop on our honeymoon, back in 1987. Nice city, although coffee at the Marcus square was ridiculously expensive already at that time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Venice was the first stop on our honeymoon, back in 1987. Nice city, although coffee at the Marcus square was ridiculously expensive already at that time.</p>
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		<title>By: Anisotropie</title>
		<link>http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/the-new-bridge-by-calatrava-in-venice/#comment-100831</link>
		<dc:creator>Anisotropie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dorigo.wordpress.com/?p=1576#comment-100831</guid>
		<description>I agree. I like Calatrava&#039;s bridge too.
And above all, I agree with &quot;the most beautiful town in the world&quot;! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. I like Calatrava&#8217;s bridge too.<br />
And above all, I agree with &#8220;the most beautiful town in the world&#8221;! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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