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6 billion euros a year September 30, 2008

Posted by dorigo in news, science.
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That is the amount of money, according to a report heard on the radio today, that italians spend yearly to consult magicians, astrologers and other assorted crooks. This, according to the investigation, is money spent across the board -all geographical parts of Italy contribute evenly, and people with different levels of instructions are affected in a similar way, from the tycoon who needs to take a financial decision to the underdog who wants to get his loved one to fall for him.

Six billion euros a year is a gigantic amount of money. Just imagine: if one year those people decided to spend their money on something less idiotic, we could build another LHC with the money they instead choose to throw out of the window, fostering a crew of parasites of this sick society based on superstition rather than reason. Of course, when people argue that building the LHC was “a waste of taxpayers’ money”, their mind is not crossed by the thought that it would be just so much better to strip those taxpayers of a bit more cash, to build a few more scientific experiments, given the way they instead use it.

Comments

1. Luboš Motl - September 30, 2008

I completely agree with you. However, I still can’t resist to ask: does the amount of EUR 6 billion include your salary?😉

2. wrf3 - September 30, 2008

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis (1898 – 1963)

3. dorigo - September 30, 2008

Hi Lubos, no, it doesn’t – in the INFN budget my salary goes on the line labeled “Entertainment activities”.

Wrf3, nice quote – and Lewis had a point. However, I insist in thinking that being a omnipotent moral busybody is better than being a tormented soul😉

Cheers,
T.

4. goffredo - September 30, 2008

Well it is not a question of telling people how to spend their money (it is theirs after all isn’t it?). I do not care to much about what people do as free individuals. What I care about are the demagogues and pseudo-intellectuals that jump at the throat of basic science research when it appears to them, at a superficial glance, to be wasteful. These people should be asked to be fair and forced to admit that people, of all sorts, and the State waste money in the most incredible ways (Featured in many movies and TV series, the police get help from paranormal mediums. Fiction? In the late seventies Prodi and his friends asked a for paranormal help to find and save the kidnapped Moro.). In politics to cut spending is not a really matter of optimizing, but it is a matter of making CHOICES.

Personally, as I wrote at the beginning, if people do have the money to pay for soothsayes or magicians, then they should be free to spend it as they wish, but at least the soothsayers and magician, to avoid being parasites, should pay taxes on their earnings. The “best” mediums evade paying huge sums of money (hundreds of thousands of euros.

5. dorigo - September 30, 2008

Hi Jeff,

everything ok above, but you show something worse than bias when you mention “prodi and his friends”. Prodi was not a politician in the late seventies. He had nothing to do with the Moro affair.

Many of Prodi’s friends are also friends of the many notables of Democrazia Cristiana who were absorbed by Forza Italia when the former disintegrated, in 1993-94.

Now, we can argue who has more ex-DC rotten apples among center-left and center-right today, but what you cannot argue against is that the 45% of people who voted DC in Veneto since 1948 to 1993, passed in block to Lega Nord and Forza Italia. The very same goes across Italy. Electoral fluxes in Italy have been studied in detail, and the fact is unquestionable… Unless you want to invoke some pseudo-science to counter it!

Cheers,
T.

Cheers,
T.

6. Mandeep Gill - September 30, 2008

Tommaso- whew! a blistering entry here today — and i loved it! felt moved enough to give you some quick props — you *go*, my friend!! :->

-M

7. goffredo - September 30, 2008

I am showing something worse than biased? What could that be? Am I wicked? I confess I get a kick out of taking cheap shots at Prodi.

You say Prodi was not a politician?
Prodi was minister of industry of the Andreotti government as of 11 march 1978 and on the 2nd of april of that same year he took part to a “seduta spiritica” to localize the kidnapped Moro. Now how in the hell do you translate “seduta spiritica”‘? Ghost session? or ectoplasm sitin?

8. goffredo - September 30, 2008

By the way Tommaso. I certainly am not implying anything about the social and political composition of the people that trash 6 billion euros a year. I am older than you and realized a very long time ago (I was younger than what you are now) that people are uniformily susceptible to spiritic hogwash: smart-stupid, educated-ignorant, right-left, rich-poor, young-old, religious-atheist, white-black, male-female, straight-gay, you name it.

So you can save us all the analysis of the percentages and fluxes of italian politics. Now that I think about it it seems YOU are implying that the ex-DC and now PDL (berlucsoni’s party) are more inclined to spiritic hogwash. Is that true? Do you think that or you just carried away?

9. dorigo - September 30, 2008

Hi Goffredo,

you are right, I had forgotten about Prodi’s charge a technical minister during Andreotti’s 1978 government. He was not a politician back then, but he did serve DC as a technician.

As for the seance, here’s what wikipedia says:

“Prodi claimed he had been given this tip-off by the founders of the Christian Democratic Party, contacted from beyond the grave via a séance and a Ouija board. […]
Later, other Italian members of the European Commission claimed Prodi had invented this story to conceal the real source of the tip-off, which they believed to have originated somewhere among the far-left Italian political groups.[4].”

And ref. [4] says:
“The seance took place on April 2, 1978, at the holiday home of Professor Alberto Clo near Bologna. Mr Prodi was among seven academics from Bologna university who decided to while away a rainy afternoon with a session at the Ouija board.

Asked where Mr Moro was being held, the “spirit” gave several answers: Viterbo, Bolsena and Gradoli, all towns in northern Lazio. But Gradoli, it later emerged, was also the name of the Rome street where the head of the Red Brigades was living.

Unfamiliar with the name and surprised at the spirit’s apparent insistence on it, Mr Prodi passed the tip to a contact at Christian Democrat Party headquarters in Rome and to a Bologna University criminologist.”

So, while not a politician, it is true that he took part in that story. Quite bad, indeed.

As for DC/FI being more willing to spend money on spiritism etc., you just misread me, it has nothing to do with this issue. I thought your reference to “prodi and his friends” had a derogatory connotation, which I now see it did not have.

Cheers,
T.

10. dorigo - September 30, 2008

Hi Mandeep,

it’s been a while, how are you doing ? Hope everything’s fine.
Yes, every once in a while I let my feelings take control in this blog…
Usually feelings of rage or disgust have the best chance to emerge.

Cheers,
T.

11. mandeep gill - October 1, 2008

T- I’m well, lensing along, here; i actually skim your blog and CV (Cosmic Variance) daily now, and these are the *only* 2 blogs i check daily. i don’t usually have time to read each entry in depth unless it really strikes me to do so, but at least i know what you’re posting about! also, i’m not a regular feedback-poster, but you’ll see me write something back here and there.. sometime, i may get into blogging extensively myself, but not real soon, in any case. but you provide a great service to both the general science-interested public and science-folk, so i’m glad you’re keeping it up regularly! :-> (and am quite regularly impressed at the breadth and depth of your entries!).

-M

12. chimpanzee - October 1, 2008

“A fool & his money..are soon parted”

The world (in general) is ruled by Perception (all sorts of wacko beliefs), rather than Reality (that governed by Engineering & Applied Science). Refer to Carl Sagan’s book “A Demon Haunted World: Why Science is like a Candle in the Dark”. A couple of U. of Arizona alumni friends of mine (geologist & astronomer, adjunct prof @Steward Observatory) both said to me:

“We’re [ American public ] in the Dark Ages”

A well known Pro-Am (professional amateur collaboration) XXX conference (well it used to be, where leading scientists at local Aerospace companies would give talks…not anymore) has deteriorated into something similar to a E.T. convention, filled with nutcases peddling all sorts of wares. It’s run by a leading outreach scientist at Caltech/JPL (who himself stole an amateur’s observation of Comet Halley, i.e. Scientific Misconduct: FRAUD)

GET THIS:
At a recent AAS (American Astronomical Society) meeting, Rob Knop observed an exhibitor pooping his crackpot conspiracy theory nonsense!? I saw something similar at AAS 2001 in Pasadena/CA (amateur astronomy vendor from XXX, selling wares comparable to what you see at an E.T. crackpot convention).

I went to the local Barnes & Noble, Borders bookstores & was SHOCKED to see that most of the popular books in the Astronomy section were written by astronomy authors (heavy ties to Amateur Astronomy community), who were using amateur astrophotos b7 well known CRACKPOT amateur astrophotographers!!. (“Is this anyway to do Science/Astronomy outreach”?). See below.

There is a crackpot photo-journalist (a real hyper-aggressive bully, pompous ass) )running around as an amateur astrophotography expert, who has conned Sky&Telescope to endorse his crackpot book/CD on teaching astrophotography. He admitted publicly:

“I couldn’t hack math in college”
“Hail Satan!”
“Just think if they let amateurs use the Hubble Space Telescope, they would blow away the REAL SCIENTISTS”

[ they think their “pretty picture” artistic nonsense in Photoshop, competes with HST..THAT’S NUTS ]

His CD/book is filled with errors on “Signal to Noise ratio”. He confuses S/N ratio… with Contrast Ratio!! Different units, different thing! Mark Trodden/Cosmic Variance recently mentioned Sky&Telescope in a CV post, so he’s in trouble in terms of not realizing he’s getting DUPED. I’m world renowned in the area of amateur-astrophotography (it started when I worked at JPL, on the Halley’s Comet computer animation), that’s why I know about all this dirt.

He has conned a UNC PhD (Earth Sciences, U. of Michigan PhD) & is currently schmoozing a U. of Hawaii Astronomy PhD candidate (his advisor is a U. of Wisconsin professor). I.e., gotten them to endorse his crackpot book. The classic politician, who SCHMOOZES to get inside an inner circle. Oops, wrong..gets caught.

There was another amateur crackpot who duped a group of professional astronomers (incl Dr. Salllie Baliunas/Harvard, U. of Wisconsin, et al)

[ U. of Wisconsin is getting DUPED again!? ]

who ditched the company (automated telescopes) & was horsing around…sunning himself in the S. Pacific (using the ill-gotten money from Scientists). That clown is back in USA, & was a presenter at a crackpot Pro-Am (name not revealed, associated with that XXX) conference where he FRAUDULENTLY claimed he had a PhD!! (& he name-dropped Dr. Sallie Baliunas/Harvard). This crackpot conference is part of some empire-building (see above XXX) by some idiots, which include a leading outreach scientist at Caltech/JPL (who with his buddy at JPL, both masters in Science), STOLE an amateur’s observation of Comet Halley (’85 outburst) & claimed it for themselves! This FRAUDULENT observation is listed in Dr. Yeoman’s (famous JPL scientist, comet/asteroid orbit guy) scholarly book on Comets!

Myself, Dr. Harrison Schmitt (1st geologist to walk on moon), & others have been disrespected at this so-called leading Pro-Am (more like it’s mostly amateur nonsense these days) conference. They falsely charged H. Schmitt admission (even though he was keynote speaker), & I was falsely charged with not paying..& they CALLED THE COPS ON ME & HAD ME THROWN OUT!? That above crackpot is libelling me on the Internet, saying I was arrested!? His fellow crackpot amateur astrophotography friend ran a police check on me, & publicly stated my record (on a crackpot amateur astrophotography email list, hosted by U of Arizona/LPL..Lunar & Planetary Lab)!? Another crackpot sent over an implied death threat to me, whereupon I had to call the LPL Director, who advised me I should call the Police!?

The above is what happens when you let non-Technical people interact with Technical people. EXACTLY what happened to Frank Wilczek/MIT (got death threats by a nutcase), Sheldon Glashow (was libelled by Italian female politician who mis-represented an article by SG..added all sorts of other crackpot nonsense: LIBEL), etc. The Internet is giving these nutcases a medium (“mouse click away”) for distribution for crackpot nonsense & network (for collaborating with fellow nutcases). This should have been covered by Bee’s “Science, Information, Society” conference, where Information on the Web can be abused (as well has help). The Internet is a double-edged sword.

Bottomline:
Caltech is about to get hit with a scandal, where 1 of their leading scientists (non PhD) is about to get exposed as a participant in this CRACKPOT involvement. It’s gonna drag in a LOT of other scientists, like S. Baliunas/Harvard. (you will note that S. Carroll/CV has mentioned her name, how he schmoozed her to get into Harvard grad school). CV has engaged in some pretty sketchy behavior (felony stalking on me), & 1 of their alumni CONTINUES to engage in criminal behavior. CV is in trouble, I no longer read that poser blog (too many political related posts).

I hate to say it, but this “Dark Ages” crackpottery has penetrated the Scientific Community. That Sky&Telescope is officially a crackpot publication (it used to be a somewhat scholarly publication, with its ties to Harvard Smithsonian Ctr for Astrophysics), but it’s gone “Entertainment” ala Astronomy magazine. A “dumb & dumber” appeal to the masses. A well known amateur (visual observer) in N. California (UC Berkeley PhD in Particle Physics) calls Sky&Telescope: “The National Sky Enquirer” (a joke amongst his high-end amateur astronomy friends). Their covers look depressingly/shockingly similar to that sensationlist rag “National Enquirer”, big red background for their logo plus sensationalist title splash.

13. dorigo - October 1, 2008

Hi Bob,

wow, you have quite a story to tell. I wonder if you are doing anything with it ? I do not quite understand how they managed to get you out of the conference, and what made them do it. Was there a past story of disagreement between you and some of the members ?

About CV: I am sorry, but I prefer to avoid engaging into the matters you mention. I respect some of the people in that blog (not all), and some of the posts are very good (John’s ones, for instance).

I am not too surprised that the world of Astronomy is ridden with these troubles. I hope it is not due to the much more open policy that Astronomy experiments have with the handling of their data. I hope the same happens with particle physics one day (i.e., one year and then everything is public). But we are far, far from that goal still.

Cheers,
T.

14. chimpanzee - October 2, 2008

T:

The problem is with AMATEUR ASTRONOMY which is filled with “undereducated bumpkins” (a phrase used by a an amateur astronomer & Caltech Physics alumni, the 1st amateurs that did CCD imaging back in the late 70’s). A non-PhD “astronomer” (amateur astronomer himself) got hired at JPL, & was amateur coordinator for Pro-Am (professional amateur) collaboration for IHW (Int’l Halley Watch). This clown & his buddy (a well-known exaggerator of his visual comet observation skills, known even to people at U. of Arizona..who made snide comments publicly!!), were in charge of receiving amateur-observations, & GET THIS: stole an amateur’s observation of Halley in outburst (sudden brightening) in Fall ’85. I.e., the “scientists” (non PhD) themselves corrupted the whole Pro-Am collaborative process!! Having been hired at JPL to work on Halley computer-animation, I interviewed various people (incl them), so I am OBLIGATED to report this Scientific Misconduct. I only found out about this abomination against Science several yrs ago, from insider friends of mine in amateur-astronomy.

You ask about “past disagreement”. None. I was collaborating with the guy, when I was at JPL 24 yrs ago working on Halley computer animation. He & his accountant friend (amateur astronomer & Astronomer poser, who goes to Minor Planet pro-am conferences) have started a company for Amateur Astronomy conferences. They use untrained volunteers (so they can make $$), which explain how Dr. Harrison Schmitt & myself were treated poorly. This whole organization has been re-organized as a “Inc.” (as opposed to a grass roots Amateur Astronomy conference), which is a scam (reported by others): it ruined the old-school Pro-Am collaboration. In the 70’s, at this conference, you would have optical engineers from local Aerospace companies to give talks & a rich ATM (amateur telescope making) activity. NO MORE. It has a feel of a E.T. crackpot conference (a bunch of crackpot vendors selling all sorts of crazy stuff).

You yourself are an amateur astronomy, & have in the past alluded to such “amateur astronomy crackpot’ism”. Something about visual observation w/Dobs (eyepiece myths?) & battle about astrophotography on Italian forums. This is a classic case of a collision between 2 universes: Technical VS non-Technical.

“The best response to a Fool..IS TO LET THEM HAVE WHAT THEY WANT”
— “Stupidity is its Own Reward”

You ask about “what to do about it”. It’s easy, the above offense happened 23 yrs ago. Like typical criminals, their modus-operanda has continued on, leaving other offenses & paper-trail. Just gather it up, walk it over to JPL & go “up the command chain”. Speak to offender’s supervisor (who has not returned my phone call), all the way up to JPL Head (Dr. Elachi, who is an EE PhD like myself). BTW, JPL hired another amateur-astronomer

[ no college degree, got D’s & F’s in math in high-school, & is a manager on Mars projects. He told me he “did something to someone”, I believe it was an act of violence..i.e he has a conviction & jail-time. He is good friends with Dr. Elachi/JPL head, so as of right now, Elachi is at risk ]

who is in the same clique as the offender I refer to above. So, you have to wonder about JPL (run by Caltech), about their hiring practices. I mean, they hire people WITHOUT DEGREES, & put them in managerial positions?? (directing PhD’s). I had a conversation with an amateur astronomy vendor:

Him: You don’t want to know
Me: Tell me
Him: OK. I smelled marijuana. THEY’RE A LOOSE BUNCH

They is a small company called Gordian (after Gordian Knot, of Julius Caesar fame), started by ex-Caltech grads. So, I think there’s an overall problem of Caltech management. They can’t keep their smart kids under control (because they have an open-architecture managerial policy), & it extends to JPL. My own experience with JPL reflects that: widespread out-of-control behavior

[ my boss w/PhD spent most of his time playing computer games, while giving me poorly prepared task lists. When he was given a public JPL commendation for “outstanding work”, that did it & I picked up & left. The 3 successive Mars mission failures a few yrs back do not surprise me. Their recent successes don’t impress me, bouncing a ball to the surface isn’t rocket science. ]

JPL hired another crackpot from U of Arizona

[ MS Space Science, who got terrible grades & was doing space projects on the side. Including, allowing a crackpot amateur astrophotography email list to be hosted by LPL/Lunar Planetary Lab servers. This email list has compromised Caltech & Harvard projects, like Dr. David Charbonneau (famed exo-planet discoverer, who did his post-doc @Caltech & is now back at Harvard). I received intonation of a death threat from this email list “I’m sorry to report that B** Y** (my name) was killed in a car accident in front of his home”. After I corrected these morons using basic high-school math & physics. Especially that crackpot journalist (well known poser astrophotographer), who claimed “Just imagine if they gave amateurs access to HST, they would blow awa the Real Scientists!”. It would follow from his logic, that

“Just imagine what would happen if they gave amateurs access to CERN/LHC data, they would blow away the Real Scientists!”

I.e., you (& your colleagues) wouldn’t stand a chance against amateurs (“I coudn’t hack math in college”)!? As a matter of fact, such a thing manifested recently, when Frank Wilczek/MIT got a death threat from a disturbed individual. This nutcase was CONVINCED that the LHC would create an earth-ending blackhole (he was RIGHT, Scientists are WRONG..he blows away “Real Scientists”). Sheldon Glashow also is a member of this “I got burned by a crackpot” club, since his writings were manipulated by that female Italian politician (forgot her name, but you had a QD blog post about it), leading to a very public fight ]

So, this nutcase from U. of Arizona/LPL is ALL OVER THE NEWS because of recent JPL Mars missions. He is the Classic Politician (a schmoozer, who gets the headlines, gets bad grades & does mediocre work), a Tucson paper did an article on this clown where it mentioned that “he got less than stellar grades”. You see, he makes up for academic weakness, by easy work: computer stuff, manipulation, etc. I contacted him about the above incident, where he compromised U of Arizona/LPL computers to a crackpot amateur email list, & he promptly hung up on me!! He forgot to hit the “end” button on his cellphone, so for the next 45 minutes I listened to him hang out in a Pasadena bar drinking beer!!??

Typical JPL employee.

My ex officemate in grad school is now Vice President @Georgia-Tech, & his ex GaTech colleague is now President of Caltech. I simply go “top-down”, arrange a meeting with him & explain my devastating research results on JPL incompetence. Tell him:

“Fix it..OR ELSE”

I remind him, that the above is a PR disaster for Caltech/JPL, & that they need to implement changes. A UIUC PhD (from my Dad’s UIUC Aerospace Eng dept) was Program Manager for Stardust (comet debris recovery mission), & involved with “Corrective Measures” after the 3 consecutive failed Mars Missions. This guy would go in & fire these people. Hiring/Firing process, simple.

In case the above doesn’t work, I have the biggest Ace up my sleeve, since I have extensive high-level media-connections (I’m with Getty Images):

“Bob, you don’t need a Lawyer. Just goto the Media. You think they wouldn’t take a shot at these Incompetents for a ratings bonanza?”
— S.H., HS classmate & U. of Michigan Law School grad

So, the entire above mess gets reported on CNN, ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, etc. And, of course Quantum Diaries gets credit for “Breaking News” for 1st blog to report scandal.

QD is a watchdog for Science Meritocracy! Tommaso Dorigo for President! (given all the rotten polticians that get profiled on your blog).

15. dorigo - October 2, 2008

Hi Bob,

thank you for this detailed explanation. In general, I believe a PhD is not a sure guarantee of scientific integrity or of being a better individual, although it biases in that direction. As for “Tommaso Dorigo for President”, well. First of all, when you get there, you become like them. And second, I resist the adulation of power.

On a different note (although I am led to write about it by association), I received news that my candidacy for a responsibility position in one of the experiments I work in has been turned down when my name, being brought up, was met by an uproar – people feeling blogs are incompatible with leading a research group.
I get this kind of crap every day. It is quite ironic that I entered the blog business in 2005 when I was invited to participate in the Quantum Diaries endeavour because I was leading a working group in CDF, and was thus “an interesting subject” for the scientific outreach QD was aiming at.

Cheers,
T.

16. dorigo - October 2, 2008

Mandeep, thanks for your kind words… Keep in touch!
(BTW, I searched you on facebook to add you, but there are, like, three pages of mandeep gills there😦

Cheers,
T.

17. claudia mauti - October 2, 2008

Hi, I’m an italian translator and I was surfin the web to find if I could find a translation for what I think is, in italian, “seduta spiritica”, mentioned by goffredo in his post about the Moro affair.
Well, if my guess is right, I think it coud be “dark circle”. Like when a few people gather around a table with a medium who falls in a trance state and channels spirits. Right? Thanks, Claudia

18. dorigo - October 2, 2008

Hi Claudia,

well, I am italian myself, so I guess I’m not the right person to ask this question to. However, it seems a good guess to me. I used to know it as a “seance”. Never heard of “dark circles” but if that is the meaning, it’s about right.

Cheers,
T.

19. chimpanzee - October 2, 2008

T:

I think that group might have been concerned with the Confidentiality issue. Remember last year, there was an anonymous posting (about some result from Fermilab, related to Higgs detection?) that caught the attention of MSM (mainstream media). It created some unwanted attention I think. I think the whole Blog thing is “work in progress”, & that there needs to be controls in place to prevent any negative-effects of blogs. The recent Frank Wilczek death threat is an example of how Internet accessibility is allowing crackpots/nuts to be more of a threat (even physical). Open Architecture is a double-edged sword.

My Caltech CS prof friend was part of a 3-way collaborative project (with Brown Univ & UNC), & they couldn’t afford the risk of a 3rd party (me) unofficially participate in any joint discussions. For fear of a leak, thus jeopardizing publishing of their work.

20. claudia mauti - October 3, 2008

dear Tommaso,
actually I found “dark circle” in a book set in victorian london…perhaps the expression changed with time, but if you search ‘dark circle’ on the internet there are lots of website of dark/goth stuff…
although I realise the topic of this blog is much different, well: can some brit/american person relieve us from this doubt?🙂
ciao,
claudia

21. Fred - October 3, 2008

Hello Claudia,

Seance is the proper translation. The expression, “dark circle,” ordinarily refers to the physical appearance around one’s eyes due to a lack of sleep from prolonged periods of work, study or stress. I would guess that the “dark circle” you found in a book set in Victorian London describing a seance seems to be the author’s use of words to convey tone and reinforce the atmosphere for the reader similar to the way an artist might apply certain strokes from a palette to influence the observer’s subconscious mind. As a translator, what is your opinion concerning Tommaso’s use of the English language in communicating with his audience?

22. claudia mauti - October 6, 2008

Hi fred, yes, I found out about ‘seance’, a french-derived term like many linked to spiritism, i.e. ouija board. I’m pretty sure ‘dark circles’ in victorian times were the equivalent of the modern ‘seance’. The author is absolutely well documented about that era, she (Sarah Waters) was dubbed ‘the modern Dickens’!). And i realised the contemporary meaning of dark cirles: OCCHIAIE in Italian! Who doesn’t know them? Anyway, as far as Tommaso’s language expertise..erm…the topic of this blog isn’t exactly my field…but I’m sure you can deal with it🙂 thanks! claudia

23. Le Spese Italiane at Viditu.it - October 27, 2008

[…] spesa annuale per astrologi e maghi in Italia: 6 miliardi di euro [2] […]

24. Danilo - October 31, 2008

Hi everybody. Yes the science in Italy is not taken in the proper consideration, not even by the government who decided for dramatic cuts to research and personnel costs.
I am from INFN (Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics). We did a dedicated site:
http://www.buconero.eu/en/
there are a lot informations and you can also sign a petition.
Please visit it.


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