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Gaza strike “defensive” for UE presidency January 3, 2009

Posted by dorigo in news, politics.
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After a long discussion with anonymous commenters in a thread developed here yesterday, I have to record the latest declaration by the Czech spokesperson Jiri Potuznik, from the UE presidency. He claims that the Israeli offensive in the Gaza strip is “a defensive and not an offensive action“.

I wonder whether the Czech foreign minister Karel Schwarzenberg, who will lead the UE delegates in Israel tomorrow, is going to promise humanitarian support to Israel, in such a delicate defensive moment.

Bitter jokes aside, I acknowledge that I belong to a minority. Feeling closer by culture to Israel than to palestine, I am asking a lot to Israel -finding a non-violent way to react to the threats and attacks- and nothing to Hamas. To me, these military incursions by the strongest army in the world into a battered strip of land are a barbarian act. I of course would have trouble finding pacate words to describe the horror of random rocket attacks to cities and suicide bombings of buses and night clubs.

Comments

1. warcrimestv - January 3, 2009

Europe supports Israel fully

2. lazopolis - January 3, 2009

The discussion in the other thread borders on the ridiculous, I am afraid. I quote from R. Fisk (from the Independent) :… watching the news shows, you’d think that history began yesterday, that a bunch of bearded anti-Semitic Islamist lunatics suddenly popped up in the slums of Gaza – a rubbish dump of destitute people of no origin – and began firing missiles into peace-loving, democratic Israel, only to meet with the righteous vengeance of the Israeli air force.

It seems to me that the aim of the Israeli operation is to inflict as many civilian casualties as possible – I can’t explain the naval blockade or the closed borders to Egypt in any other way.

3. juhan - January 4, 2009

Is the will of god: fight!

4. Israeli - January 4, 2009

Let me tell you what are barbarian acts:

1) To do anything you can to kill as much as possible, to cause as much pain as you can, and to enjoy it and be proud of it.

2) To do anything you can to kill the free will, to torture the soul (and the flesh), to leave everyone hopeless.

These are, more or less, two complementary definitions of Hamas.

Not only that defending against the brutal actions of this regime is by no means a barbarian action, it is a moral must. And I can assure all your sanctimonious readers that, as oppose to what most of them would have done under similar circumstances, the IDF is doing anything it can not to harm civilians, even at the costs of soldiers lives. believe me, you will not find this attitude in any other military force.

5. dorigo - January 4, 2009

Israeli, once more. I have never even bothered commenting Hamas actions because I think they are hopeless. However, your beloved IDF are killing civilians. 500 have died so far. I retain hope that those in your country who still feel different from arab terrorists raise and change your country’s sick foreign politics. The Hamas wishes you list above are barbarian, but so are the bombs your army is dropping or aiming.

But you insist, and you are becoming annoying:

“As opposed to what most of them would have done (my readers), the IDF is doing anything it can blah blah”.

I am sorry to say it bluntly, but your sentence can only come from somebody who is full of s**t and, as Fred pointed out, delusional. Fortunately, the Israeli people are not like you, mostly. And I believe you are paying them a very bad service by your verbal hemorrhages.

Please abstain from commenting further until you decide to drop anonymity. Sorry, as an anonymous entity you are a lost cause from square one, plus you are doing nothing to keep the discussion a prolific one.

T.

6. Luboš Motl - January 4, 2009

Dear Tommaso,

as a current co-president of the EU, I must tell you that it’s spelled EU and not UE in English.😉

Czechoslovakia has had friendly relations with Israel since its (Israel’s) very birth. Also because we’ve had lots of Jews who have been killed during holocaust, Czechoslovakia found it natural to help Israel during its initial stages and the friendship has been powerful during the first decades. The right of Israel to exist was understood even without other reasons but the holocaust experience strengthened these ideas.

Only during the 1980s, the communists began to consider the Palestinian terrorists and semiterrorists to be their comrades. But this relationship was never too cordial. You know, the Czechoslovak commies had no good reason to trust these third-world “comrades” because they’re simply different and lack the prosperity and cultural traditions that the communists stole and partially & temporarily destroyed in Czechoslovakia.

This is a point that most people in the West misunderstand – one of many. They thought that e.g. we would be taught about Che Guevara all the time. People are normally shocked that I had never heard about that particular bastard and killer during my standard communist basic/high school education. They were not really friends with our commies. Moreover, almost none of my basic school teachers of these subjects believed a word about communism.

With the Velvet Revolution, it became obvious that our relationships with Israel should be fully restored and all the (finite) harm done by our previous lukewarm support of the Arafat-like and Hamas-like terrorists should be undone.

There’s no doubt that from a fair, strategic, and sensible European perspective, Israel has the full right to defend itself against the aggressive scum among the Arabs that wants to liquidate the very country. You know, the existence of Israel has been a controversial question. It was a social engineering project, after all, because it was about an unnatural restoration of the status that could have existed 2000 years ago. But this controversy belongs to the late 1940s.

Israel has been around for quite some time, the people who lived when it was created are mostly dead today, and Israel with its integrity should be treated exactly like any other country similar to the civilized European countries – because Israel really is the same kind of a country, in the ocean of scary 1st millenium religious totalitarianism.

So be sure that the Czech Republic will try to moderately contribute to the EU support of Israel, whenever our modest competences are enough. On the other hand, everyone, Schwarzenberg, Potužník or anyone else whom you have heard about, wants all solutions to be as human as possible. But we’re not going to join Hamas just because we don’t like a particular strike.

But when it comes to the big questions about the far-future shape of the Middle East, rather than the technicalities about the human character of one strike or another, be sure that most Czech politicians (and citizens who care, which are not numerous) support the Israeli viewpoint.

Best
Luboš

7. dorigo - January 4, 2009

Hi Lubos,

thank you for this explanation, which provides me with otherwise hard-to-find information. I did know that the Czech republic has warm relations with Israel, so I was not surprised by the (later retracted) declaration of the EU presidency spokesperson.

Che Guevara is a true hero of the XXth century. He fought for the rights of the poor in central and south america, and I forgive you for not understanding he was a better man than you or I will ever be.

Cheers,
T.

8. Luboš Motl - January 4, 2009

Dear Tommaso, it was a pleasure. Wikipedia puts it as “special relationships between the Czechs and Israel”,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Israel#Czech_Republic

Unlike Wikipedia, I wouldn’t say that we particularly and bravely fought against the Nazis😉 but at least Czechoslovakia did certain things when they were no longer too dangerous, e.g. sending arms to Israel between 1947 and 1949

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_shipments_from_Czechoslovakia_to_Israel_1947-1949

So these good words about Israel are not just about words. Besides the important contribution of the Jews to our culture and the feel of guilt that we couldn’t save their lives, most Czechs feel that Israel is facing a similar situation, threatened by a possible betrayal by its allies, as we did in the late 1930s. You know, we know quite something about this possibility.

Your most famous former prime minister Bennito kindly helped his even more famous German friend Adolf to grab 1/3 of the Czechoslovak territory and transform it from democracy to Nazism while our French and British allies were boasting how politically correct they were by licking Adolf’s stinky ass and screwing their Czech friends that they never cared about much like they don’t care about the Israeli allies.

What can happen to whole decent nations is much more important than one or two dead Arab civilians, even though manipulative PC media often want the people to believe otherwise.

See my extra comments about this issue:

http://motls.blogspot.com/2009/01/czech-eu-presidency-israel-is-defending.html

In the early 1990s, we seriously considered to make the promotion of criminals like Che Guevara to be a hate crime in Czechoslovakia, and we had a very good point. We still have the bill prosecuting those who promote “movements that try suppress human rights and freedoms”, but truth to be said, it is only used to go after teenagers with skin heads rather than their more dangerous (in the real world) friends on the left side, so I guess that you wouldn’t be put in the jail even if you translated your outrageous comments about the communist mass murderer into Czech.

Best wishes
Lubos

9. andy.s - January 4, 2009

“To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary,” [said Castro’s] chief executioner, named Ernesto “Che” Guevara. “These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate.”

Nice hero you got there, Tomaso. If his numerous murders are OK with you, why get snitty about the Israelis?

10. dorigo - January 4, 2009

Hi Andy,

a revolution is something which has happened very few times in the history of man, and it was usually the only right thing to do. The french revolution is the prime example. The cuban revolution is another. Saying that a boat of desperados willing to give their life to overturn an oppressive, corrupt regime can hardly be compared to the hypertechnological, advanced, and billionaire IDF would, I am afraid, be a merciful understatement. So what can I say ? Everybody has their heroes. If yours is Ben Gurion, I certainly won’t object.

Cheers,
T.


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